This is not what we need from you, Sean-- focus on updates and spare the bandwidth-clog, please!

Sean-Paul,

FWIW, I'm getting an RP "file not found error" over my dialup. Comments are opening quite slowly, too.

What's the file?

Sean...Keep doing what you are doing. There is no reason this should not be seen. Pray for those guys, let's hope they are kept safe.

can you give another link for file?

i would really like to see the clip, however it is not wrking on my end. has it been taken down?

Mirror of video clip here. Thanks for all the great coverage, here's returning the favor.

Would you be willing to email the file or give us info on where we might could find it ourselves? (Keep up the great work on this awesome site! Just found you yesterday!)

flame me if you will...

but all these soldiers keep saying "i was just following orders"

in bush's speech the other day, didn't he say that exact phrase was "no excuse"

not so pretty when the tables are turned, eh?

this whole mess is so depressing. let's hope the american people wake up from their media-sponsored slumber and demand that this whole mess be ended now.

"I also believe in freedom of the press"

If you tolerate my presence, believe me, you don't have to toot your own horn on that account: I'll hapilly do it for you.

I am sorry that I missed the photos as I think everyone needs to seem them contrary to some people's opinion who seem to want to keep these pages hygenically clean ! The last thing war is is sanitised !!

PLEASE MIRROR THE CLIP IF YOU CAN. ALL HELP APPRECIATED.

Thanks.

I know it's not a pretty thing to watch, but this is what war is, not the glorified crap reported by the embedded networks. Images like these will certainly change minds in all camps. There is no way to formulate an opinion without seeing all of the facts.

BTW: I'm a Gulf War 1 veteran, and until this morning I was very undecided about this campaign. My mind is now made up.

http://videos.elmundo.es:8080/ramgen/noticias/2003/03/23/alqaeda.rm

http://videos.elmundo.es/noticias/2003/03/23/alqaeda.asf

Despite your (or anyone's) political views and beliefs about whether or not someone should or should not see something... I don't think it would serve your site and your efforts very well to facilitate the violation of international law. There is, afterall, a difference between merely filming an actual POW vs. engaging in on-camera questioning and public display of them. One is news, and perfectly legal. The other is propgandistic/exploitive in purpose and against the law. I hope most thinking persons can make that distinction? Maybe I'm way off base, but I bet international law says I'm not.

Other than that, great site whether people agree with what they read or not. Alot of people in the world would kill (or die) for such freedom of expression! ;-)

-m

Pray for those guys, let's hope they are kept safe.

And the woman, too.

America sure has come a long way, Baby.

Oops.. missed invitation to flame:

Pesi says: "flame me if you will... but all these soldiers keep saying "i was just following orders" in bush's speech the other day, didn't he say that exact phrase was "no excuse" not so pretty when the tables are turned, eh?

Uhm, pesi, do you perform potentially life threatening/saving acts using that brain? I hope not. Ever heard of "context"? Bush said that in context to the prospect of Iraqis using Chem/Bio weapons. A clear violation of international law and considered a "war crime". Somethine the world all knows the Iraqis have done in times past (ask the Iranians for their insight on this). The U.S. soldiers said that in response to being questioned about their presence/purpose in the war, not their use of a WMD. One could argue on the finer points there, but I doubt you'd see them even if you squinted very hard.

enjoy. but most of all, enjoy the site.

-m

pesi,

When Bush referred to "just following orders", he was referencing that this would not be considered a valid excuse for deplying chemical or biological weapons against coalition troops.

These soldiers were mechanics that made a wrong turn. i'd be surprised if they were more than lightly armed.

I have mirrored the file in this posting:
my posting including mirrored file.

Follow the same instructions as Sean gave.

The video is also still working on that Italian site someone posted earlier, I just tried it and it started to load:

http://www.corriere.it/speciali/altre_notizie_iraq/video.shtml

I can't take it anymore, quitting this for a spot of gardening (life), there was just a truly Vietnam deja vus nighttime battle scene on BBC World. Too many "pockets of resistance" for me. It's going to go on for a decade, I'm convinced. To paraphrase Le Monde, "we are all Israelis now".

For all of us on slow dialups (still the majority of Web users), would someone please describe what this particular video file is?

On the whole, I think the lives of the American POWs are safer with Al Jazeria film crews hovering about. The Iraqi military are well aware that their propaganda coup among the western educated elites in the Arabic world will be lost if the POWs (who clearly know less about the campaign than most of us) die in interrogation.

I'll post a recap on my website shortly. It's hard to stomach.

Live POWs have traditionally been used as post-war bargaining tools by the losers and the victors.

Sean-Paul,

Thank you for publishing that. I believe it is the responsibility of Americans to seek out both the good and bad news and evaluate all our decisions and opinions based on all of the fact, not just some of them.

I wish more Americans believed that treating adults as intelligent beings capable of handling both the good and the bad is better for a constitutional republic than hiding certain things away because they might offend.

i know, it's taken out of context.

but the inner cynic in me just can't help itself.

that was the first thing that crossed my mind when i saw this clip though.

i feel really sorry for the kid with glasses. looks no more than 18-19 years old. reminds me of so many kids i knew in high school that joined the military because they felt they had "no other choice" due to a sluggish economy and a bad workplace. so this kid gets screwed by bush on two accounts, bad economic as well as bad foreign policy.

What Eric just said.

Would that CNN was less of a showcase for military hardware, and more of a real information source.

I empathize with "the kids in glasses", pesi. But, as a former 8 year volunteer member of the armed services of the US and Gulf 1 vet, I don't agree with "the kid gets screwed by bush". I'm willing to bet he's scared, been threatened, etc.. but willing to bet if you were to ask him, he freely accepts his place as a volunteer who accepted the risks of serving in the Army. It *tends* to be the civilians who project some form of pawn-like feelings onto our armed forces. The vast majority of our volunteers willingly accept their situation and do their duty in supporting their Commander-in-Chief, as unpopular and unbelievable as that thought might seem to others. It's a "duty thing". Some people don't get it, and I understand that.

-lb

Agreed on the mainstream news. Sometimes, they do 'ok', but they never lose focus. News = Ratings and ratings often call for fluff and stuff approach. =/

Rummy tells about how it is a violation to show how POWS are trated. the video shows interviews with four soldiers. The first talks about just following orders and is asked why he is there. He is saying he was told only to shoot if they are shot at. The second is an AfAm woman from Texas.She looks very scared and frightened. She is 30. From Unit 507 Maintneance, James Reilly is much more comfortable He is from NJ. The last is an officer and he is asked if the Iraqui people hav greeted him with flowers or with guns. He resonds saying "What? Right here?" He is asked the question again and says he doesn't understand.

One more mirror off this site:

http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~wongds/pow/

lanboy:

i understand what you're saying, and i know people like that as well. but there is a reason why a disproportionate number of our troops come from poor, minority backgrounds. they see it as a "way out", that they have no other options. would they feel the same way if we took care of them at home with a better domestic policy? i'm not sure...

Agonist: can we have a for-comment-only post please? To handle the generic comments. Just been reading through all the comments. I liked this one from girlmudgeon best:

"We may even get a Y2K-compliant Constitution out of it, too."

I took the necessary steps to view the file, and it began to play. 10 seconds in, it paused to buffer for some time, and then I realized that my curiousity was (mercifully) to remain unfulfilled.

Thank you for your gesture, Sean-Paul. The bandwidth issue was a reminder that I should likely have politely declined in the first place.

CNN has been making much today of their decision not to show the POW video.

They are now saying they will not show it "for the moment", presumably until all of the families have been notified. Apparently the legal staff has been busy...

One question, though, as a parent. Although obviously painful to watch, would you not rather know through such video evidence that your son/daughter was alive?

Bush did all of this. Some of you only want to cry about our POW's. Maybe you need another view on the situation I hope Bush rots in hell.

http://news.lycos.com/news/photo.asp?section=BreakingPhotos&photoId=293509

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030322/ts_nm/iraq_basra_jazeera_dc_1
[
KUWAIT (Reuters) - Al-Jazeera television, quoting Iraqi medics, said on Saturday that 50 people had been killed in U.S. bombing around the southern Iraqi city of Basra and it aired grisly footage of dead and wounded civilians.

Among the scenes, beamed across the Arab the world by the Qatar-based satellite channel, were a child with the back of its head blown off -- it was unclear if it was a boy or a girl -- and bloodied people being treated on the floor of a hospital.
]

Jonathan,

Thanks for your "Description of Video" recap.

i was wavering lately, wavering between withdrawing my support for the war and supporting the peace movement.. but seeing the faces of those soldiers has really put any thought of diplomacy with the iraqi regime in the trash..
dunno what they were thinking.. the iraqi regime really has no military intelligence do they?

mike

Waaaaaaa. Waaaaaaa. Cries Rumsfeld. What a hypocrite to talk about violating a convention.

I don't think it would serve your site and your efforts very well to facilitate the violation of international law.

The Geneva Convention binds governments - it doesn't bind their media or their citizens. So while the Iraqi government has an obligation not to expose POWs to humilition and public curiousity (which they're clearly ignoring), there's no such obligation on Al Jazera, CNN or any other media outlet. Calls by Rumsfeld for TV networks not to show the footage are simply an attempt to hide an embarassment, deny the Iraqis their propaganda coup, and deny Americans valuable information which could influence their support for the war.

Idiot/Savant

Anyone know where to find the 6 minute version as described on Drudge?

The line "I was unsure about my position in regard to war, but the POW footage enraged me so much that I now fully support Bush no matter what" seems to be the new talking point given out by the GOP Teamleaders. I've seen that quite often in slight variations lately.

Here is where you can see the WHOLE video that was put out:
http://www.aljazeera.net/mritems/streams/video/2003/3/23/1_146027_1_12.asf
Unfortunately, it has been pretty restricted but I saw it between restrictions. I don't think everyone NEEDS to see this but I do feel that everyone (adult) should be able to.

The URL above will take you to a site that I posed the questions you asked for answers on from your main page.

Hope it helps.

I fully support Bush and seeing these photos makes it stronger. I was in the Amry and my husband is over there right now. These photos hit close to home. These soldiers are part of his brigade. It is a little different when you know the people in the photos.

Does anyone know where I can see the whole POW footage. I've tried going to aljazeera.net but like many, I can't get through.

I have yet to be able to see the video! Does anyone know where I can go to to see the video! Thank you! Carolyn

Hi Sean.
These videos are quite disturbing. but I am glad that everyone can see how these POW's are being treated.