i think this is important
by far the best discussion on why we went to war:
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/3/25/215123/681

sorry if it's all been said

Yes, interesting link ...

This editorial from Abu Dhabi, in the US-friendly UAE, says Saddam is the new Saladin. The PR war seems to be going very poorly for us.

Sean,

I like your idea about breaking your "Flashes" down into more headlines. I have your RSS feed going through Trillian Pro, but when you update a flash, it doesn't update the RSS. The new news you add to the Flash doesn't register on the RSS feed.

If, as you suggested, you establish separate threads for new news and comments, maybe you could add a third, called the bash heap, for the people who like to exercise the negative end of their vocabulary. Then you wouldn't have to ban anyone, and those of us who dislike this kind of thing still wouldn't be forced to wade through it in order to read the useful comments.

You're doing great work here. Don't let these people sidetrack you and use up your energy.

This Turkey stuff makes me nervous, we've supplied their army very well.If the "Hearts and Minds" campaign doesn't get off the ground soon, things will get ugly.

Is there any more information about, or confirmation of, the IRNA report of he bombing of the food supply depot in Basra?

FYI: A link to the story can by found at: http://www.irna.com/en/head/030329200011.ehe.shtml

it was a very night
because it was really happy

some more background on the war - and "cakewalk ken":

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2003/03/28/cakewalk/index.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A1996-2002Feb12¬Found=true

these guys are the ones giving bush all his advice? wtf?

thanks for all the nfo sean-paul

What's especially disturbing is that we're turning a war criminal into a hero. The average Arab-on-the-street, who would be inclined to hate Saddam, now identifies with him through feeelings of pan-Arabic pride. This is a counter-productive unmitigated disaster that won't change simply because we find a few cannisters of mustard gas.

Have seen this once, on local news flash last night (WHDH Boston, NBC affiliate), and nowhere else. Marines in An Nasiriyah found what appeared to be an Iraqi torture room -- spartan bed next to car battery w/cables. Elsewhere, repeat, ELSEWHERE in same compound, found uniforms of two female American MIAs. Film in news flash showed room w/bed and something that could have been car battery, did not show uniforms. Treat as suspect until confirmed. Hope it will never be confirmed.

... what appeared to be an Iraqi torture room -- spartan bed next to car battery w/cables.

Check yesterday's comments. Already much discussion about the battery.

Saddam was a hero in late 1990.

Only after the bombs fell did his aura fade.

This too, shall pass.

He added, "But I want to say clearly that Turkey is an independent state and does not take orders from anyone."

Jeesh, sounds like Canada. Who do they think they're messing with? Time for another regime change!
Seriously though, the Kurds seem to be getting some good press from CNN et al. The more they are popularized, the more Turkey and Iran will feel threatened and the more likely they will intercede to ensure its "sensitives are protected." Perhaps it's inevitable anyway.

SPK: your outstanding work continues to humble and inspire us all. Glad you're still here.

There has really been a massive slow down in the news reports comming out of iraq. Compare volume and pace of news last sat or sunday to now. Huge difference.

"The plan is nothing: the planning is everything.

"In war or code-development, plans tend to be very flexible. Things never seem to go according to plan. However, the fact that you actually engaged in planning activities gives you the insight and the understanding required to modify your plan to meet the evolving situation."

-- Dwight D. Eisenhower

Raff,

Most wars that are longer than that will settle into a pattern.

Remember, for all our mistakes, Saddam can't do terribly much about them.

Bring all instruments into place. Then lower the hammer.

Whups, thanks Illicit, I've not kept up on the comments as much as I should've

Question
Why are coalition forces bombing aid stations in Basra killing civilians? How in the heck can you make a mistake like that?

I'd say they need to include targets that look like that for their practice bombing runs and practice shelling exercises in training so they can know how to avoid them in the real war. Why can't the military think that far ahead?

I've been watching Fox News non-stop since the war began, and according to their sources everything is going as planned. Also, the allies have not bombed any civilians--those are the Iraqis bombing their own people. We are the liberators. The anti-war nuts would have us do nothing and allow the Iraqis attack us yet again.

S-P,

I know this doesn't belong this this comment thread, but I know you read through all the comments. Is there any chance to get live web-links on the 'Tiny Agonist' webpage?

I've uploaded that version of the site on my Palm (so I can take the agonist where-ever I go), but would love to get access to the Flash web-links.

Keep up the tremendous work, your passion, and try not to get burned out. I no longer check any other news source but yours.

Take Care

FoxHound,

Can you remind me of when it was that the Iraqis attacked us before? Please do not suggest 11 September, 2001, because it seems that no one in US intelligence analysis (FBI, CIA) thinks that there is any evidence for an Iraqi connection to al Qaeda, let alone to the terrorist attacks on 11 September, 2001.

David

Thanks for the Galloway link on machinations. Here's his story for today, on foreign intelligence reports about Iraqi tactics. Galloway was interviewed by Teri Gross earlier in the week--he's a Vietnam era reporter with extremely good connections, now working for Knight-Ridder, and well worth following.

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/special_packages/iraq/5511878.htm

foxhound,

FOX News have been notoriously partial since the start of this war. I recommend watching a few other news channels as well.

As we've all read, CIA paramilitary troops and other special ops groups are roaming Iraq (see WaPo for a good article on this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A44793-2003Mar28.html ).

Given that they allegedly operate a lot in urban areas trying to kill Iraqi leaders, I cannot believe that they wear uniforms or other insignia identifying them as U.S. combatants. If they don't, are they "lawful combatants" or are they "terrorists"? If captured by the Iraqis, would they be protected by the Geneva convention?

David - your parody-detector needs a tune-up.

Foxhound: regardless of one's opinion of the war relying on a single news source is unhealthy. Especially a source with as obvious a bias as Fox. But I expect you are just trolling?

Nice to know we are winning in Rupert's world though. :)

Listening to the media feeding frenzy on what General Wallace had to say, in essence; "It wasn't supposed to be this way" makes me want to ask him if he has been living in a cave. Does that mean it's not his fault if his troops get killed because it "wasn't supposed to be this way". How did he get those stars on his shoulder?

SPK: I too think it's very interesting to observe the blame-game opening up. I note the divide between the politcal agenda and the military imperatives increasingly widening, from the politicos to the generals to the troops on the ground to the pundits at every level. It seems to me that unless the war is resolved quickly internal polarization will be a considerable problem to contend with. They are just short of bickering now. Nothing demoralizes line staff quicker than divided command; it sours the taste of even the best MRE. When it's your own ass out there on the field, it's discouraging to see your leaders working so hard to cover their own. To the spectators, posturizing tells everyone something is seriously amiss.

On the "Hearts and Minds" campaign: how can the planners have considered this seriously with concomitant "Shock and Awe"? The 2 can't co-exist, can they? You don't win the hearts and minds of any proud race with overwhelming fear, force and technology. It doesn't wash. "Shock and Awe" to me indicates the shallowness of the planners, and to the Iraqi it must be both laughable at it's ineffectiveness and horrible at it's unintended consequences.

In reference to the points you raise on the quoted poll, I'm reminded of the Wolf poll you pointed us to the other day. Polls, by their nature, are seldom a reliable shortcut to apprehending real opinion.

http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20030329-082443-4948r.htm

Iraq: Efforts to try Bush as war criminal.
By GHASSAN al-KADI
UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL

My signature:
Please pray for all victims of this conflict!
Thanks!

The whole "Shock and Awe" concept - I'm not just talking about the military bombing concept, but the Bush Administration's entire approach to foreign policy in general - makes one believe that the mindset within the Administration really genuinely puts excessive stock in the "glory and majesty" of the presidency.

It reminds me of that amusing episode from the presidency of Bush Sr., where he had a bit of a tantrum because he didn't want to eat his veggies: "I don't like broccoli, I never liked it as a child, now I'm President of the United States, and I'm not going to eat it!"

That was funny at the time, and a little cool for Bush to say, I thought. These days, though, it provides an unexpected insight into the mindset in which the administration of Bush Jr. dwells. The idea that the President of the United States is God, and that that power is self-evident to any and all; and that if this God becomes displeased, the world will therefore be "shocked and awed."

Food for thought. No pun intended.

I believe Coalition's military planners would have learned few things from Napolean and Hitler's push through Russia in their campaigns against the Czars and the Bolshevicks. As the saying was "General Winter did the fighting for Russia, on both the occasions". In this Iraqi campaign Coalition's supply lines are stretched out more than 300 miles and there is no difference between Arctic desert of Russia and the horrific hell of Arabian desert. I am wondering whether the 5-6 days lull in fighting,ordered by President Bush will help the Iraqi's or the Coalition Forces?

Two questions
1. Does anyone know if there are any German troops involved in the war, either in support ops or combat (I doubt combat)? I ask because my wife is German and a few days ago she was talking to her mother in Braunschweig when her mother told her that the German media had reported that there were indeed some German troops involved.
2. I realize there is logic and emotion. But how can so many people believe that Saddam could in any way be a hero? Is it that so many in the middle east view Bush and Blair as tyrants more evil than Saddam himself? Too bad it wasn't a required part of one's education to have to live and learn in another country for a period of 1 or 2 years (ideally would apply to everyone). Maybe then there would be less worldwide hostility and simultaneously more backbone to deal with tyrants (like stopping them before they get too powerful).

RE: Saddam as the new Saladin.
This would seem to be an instance of the Muslim world assuaging its feeling of debasement at the hands of the rest of the world (Christians and Jews, especially) by hitching their wagon to the brightest-burning defiant star (Arafat, bin Laden, Khomeni...) Perhaps this war will to some degree unite the region: for better, if it can look forward; for worse if an atttempt is made to restore past glory.

After reading this 1968 Atlantic Monthly article on VietNam, I couldn't help but find parallels between the ideology of the current administration and of those during the VietNam war. Of course there are many differences in the actual conflict and in particular the capabilities of the participants -- I'm not saying that the war in Iraq is going to end in the same way -- but there are still some interesting similarities. Once in a while, I got a chill down my spine when I substituted the word "communism" in the article with "terrorism".

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/68apr/vietnam.htm

Apologies if this reference has been posted before.

Re: "You don't win the hearts and minds of any... race with ... fear, force and technology." On the contrary, the Middle East is full of countries where this has been the path to their current national state. From everything I've read, I'm starting to believe the Islamic culture seems to accept domination by paternal fanatics, religious and secular.

I've also read many disquisitions from experienced writers (v.s. Naipaul; Karen Armstrong; Thomas Friedman) that are leading me to the conclusion that the only thing cultures that have grown up with Islam understand toward organizing a State is power and dominance. One writer made a joke: In America, we quest for money to gain power. In the Middle East a potentate gains power in order to get money. Some of this "bow to power" paradigm can come from the Islamic belief that God "micro manages" everything. Ergo, God must have willed power to Saddam, or Bin Laden, or The House of Saud. Therefore, he can will it to the United States.

Can we gain their respect through power? I'm not so sure we can't....sadly. However, the moral battle is only "Can we get them to leave us alone" by their ostracizing the acts of their own radical extremists, so we can both live in peace. Unfortunately, I have never heard this postulate from a Muslim scholar or cleric. Like Christian faiths, they seem to hold proselytizing as the one sacrosanct pillar of their flock that will never be abated. Fatwahs and Jihads are simply more virulent forms of proselytizing.

"Erdogan's warning came after Iraqi Kurdish fighters pushed to within 30 miles of the strategic oil city of Kirkuk"

Is it possible the Iraqis are retreating towards Kirkuk so as to provoke just this sort of tension between Turkey and America? They don't appear to be retreating because of any actual fighting...?

I believe Coalition's military planners would have learned few things from Napolean and Hitler's push through Russia in their campaigns against the Czars and the Bolshevicks.

And I'd like to remind you of how the generals were pissed of with Hitler meddling in their planning the whole time. A few of those resigned, until only the yes-men remained.
Stalingrad and had not to happen the way it came about.

>Question
> Why are coalition forces bombing aid stations in >Basra killing civilians? How in the heck can you >make a mistake like that?

Simple -

1. Starve the people of Basra to force them to come out.

2. Hijack aid coming from Aid Agencies and give to people from Basra.

4. Show on "Propaganda TV Baghdad" how the "Evil Regime" has treated Basra and how the "Liberators" have saved them with their own aid package.

Is it just me or is propagande becoming less transparent?

The "Coalition Dolphin" will probably be shot for treason before the Marine accused of fratricide, no doubt.

"If, as you suggested, you establish separate threads for new news and comments, maybe you could add a third, called the bash heap, for the people who like to exercise the negative end of their vocabulary"

Uh. That never works. Ask me why...

I'm sure everyone here appreciates the Agonist's efforts and wants to see him succeed by them. For that reason I am sure we will all keep our cool. Comments here have been (obviously except mine!) excellent.

1. Does anyone know if there are any German troops involved in the war, either in support ops or combat (I doubt combat)? I ask because my wife is German and a few days ago she was talking to her mother in Braunschweig when her mother told her that the German media had reported that there were indeed some German troops involved.

German NBC decontamination teams with "Fuchs" APCs are in Kuwait, but will *not* participate in any direct action.

German air force officers as controllers on board of AWACS flights along the turkish border, but there's serious discussion now whether they should be withdrawn, because AWACS does not only protect NATO ally Turkey, but could (and will) be used to coordinate fire control and airstrikes.

Apart from international law, the german constitution explitly forbids planning and participating or abetting aggressive war.

German politicians could be prosecuted in german courts for that.

2. I realize there is logic and emotion. But how can so many people believe that Saddam could in any way be a hero? Is it that so many in the middle east view Bush and Blair as tyrants more evil than Saddam himself?

Not necessarily more "evil", whatever that means, but they are seen as conquerors.
Given the hurt pride of the arabs over the course of history, and the more than questionable intentions of the invaders, I'd think they'd rather deal with Saddam "inside the family".

Too bad it wasn't a required part of one's education to have to live and learn in another country for a period of 1 or 2 years (ideally would apply to everyone).

Especially for would-be political leaders.
You know who I'm thinking of.

Maybe then there would be less worldwide hostility and simultaneously more backbone to deal with tyrants (like stopping them before they get too powerful).

Absolutely.
Thinking like "They hate us anyway", which seems to run rampant among US citizens, wouldn't stand a chance against a more educated worldview.

the Mr Polls link http://www.misterpoll.com/2681223993.html

tries to install GATOR. Be careful.

Relax everyone...A hydologically 'embedded' reporter just stated that Tacoma is "...just out getting laid!"
Had to.

Foxhound:

JOURNALIST EMBEDDED WITH FOX NEWS
Assigned to Cover “Fair and Balanced” Network for Duration of War

As part of an experimental new program initiated by the Defense Department, a journalist has been embedded with the Fox News Network, giving him unique access to the “fair and balanced” network for the duration of Operation Iraqi Freedom.

David Peterson, a reporter for the Akron Beacon-Journal, will be the only journalist living, working, and eating with Fox News staffers in the weeks to come.

Mr. Peterson said that although he felt very much “like an outsider” at the beginning of his stint with Fox News, he said that a mutual respect has grown between him and his hosts.

“I think at first it was weird for them to have a journalist around,” Mr. Peterson said.

Mr. Peterson said that he does his best to stay out of the way of his Fox News comrades, adding, “They have their job to do and I have mine.”

While the veteran journalist said he was excited about being embedded with Fox News, he admitted that his first days at the news channel had provided him with more than a few hair-raising moments.

“You can prepare all you want to be embedded at Fox News, but until you’re in the thick of it, you have no idea how scary a place Fox News can be,” Mr. Peterson said.

The journalist added that even with the unfettered access he has been given to Fox News, the news channel has been careful to protect him from situations that it deems too dangerous.

“I’m not allowed to talk to Bill O’Reilly when he’s in the makeup chair,” he said.

(From www.borowitzreport.com)

---->>>
Is it just me or is propagande becoming less transparent?
<<<----

I think some are too quick to call something propaganda. Personally, I can not simply due to the fact that I just do not know one way or the other. Before calling something propaganda, or even believing it is, investigate several sources from all p.o.v. -- then try to make the same decision. You will likely come up a little less likely to claim black and white.

I believe the black and white -- calling all Pentagon briefings propaganda, or, calling all anti-war ppl wrong, immediately sends a bright burning flare up that says turn the page.

After reading many of the posts from both sides. I can't help but come to the conclusion that 99% of you don't have the faintest idea of what your talking about.

Start Quote:
DavidByron:
"Erdogan's warning came after Iraqi Kurdish fighters pushed to within 30 miles of the strategic oil city of Kirkuk"

Is it possible the Iraqis are retreating towards Kirkuk so as to provoke just this sort of tension between Turkey and America? They don't appear to be retreating because of any actual fighting...?
EndQuote:

Strange, isnt it ? Why is Turkey alarmed about Kurdish forces getting FARTHER away from Turkey ? I have to wonder if the Turks think that the Kurds will declare an independant state if they capture Kirkuk. Lets hope that dosnt happen and muddly the waters further.......

Mad Dog

How did he get those stars on his shoulder?

Right before the war began, the press was playing up the fact that Gen. Wallace is a descendent of William Wallace (yes, the Braveheart William Wallace). Someone should tell him what his ancestor said:

Men don't follow titles. Men follow courage.

Saying the enemy isn't playing fair isn't exactly my idea of exuding courage. FWIW.