Big deal! we're the GREAT UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!! Let the arabs try to play tough. We'll beat them down like we're beating down Saddam!!

GOD BLESS AMERICA!!

I don't like the implications of this... It was only a matter of time, though

9:15-9:29= 14min...;-)

Why the hell are there no US heavy units in reserve or scheduled to show up soon ? Great. Now we have to garrison some of the Iran border. Just peachy. The lack of heavy units makes the designer of this operational plan look like a complete doofus.

Mad Dog

that would be...Rumsfield's master plan!!

But like he said earlier today "Those retired military analysts just don't know the plan!"

According to rumsfield, lifetime military people = stupid. Rummy = genius!

God bless America!
God bless Rummy!

Hey, I'm a fast eater too! Don't forget the antacids though, it can come back to bite you.!

about the discussion in flash LVII about Savidge's report to CNN claiming napalm was used on the 22d:

has napalm ever been described or held out as a WMD? are _all_ chemical weapons WMDs?

thanks, sean, for all the hard work, and thanks just about everyone else for all of your commentary. it's an education . . .

about the discussion in flash LVII about Savidge's report to CNN claiming napalm was used on the 22d:

has napalm ever been described or held out as a WMD? are _all_ chemical weapons WMDs?

thanks, mr. kelly, for all the hard work, and thanks just about everyone else for all of your commentary. it's an education . . .

This blog reminds me of the Giants/Eagles fan message board.

p.s. can you guess who's side i'm on?

channel 4 news is reporting (and showing video of) dolphins which have been flown in from california, to be used in the search for mines off umm qasr.

their reporters west and north of basra are also saying that they wouldn't call what's going on a "popular uprising", but that there is something going on, with iraqi military firing on positions within the city. also, british troops that had been put on standby to go into basra have been called off for now, waiting for daylight instead because the situation is just too uncertain.

Well, right now, despite the pin-prick raids by iraqi "irregulars", things arent so bad. However, with forces stretched so thin, the margin against a serious militray setback in much thinner.

Consider: The US 3rd infantry is strung out 200 miles from friendly territory. They have to be damn tired after the last 4 days. Are supplies getting low ? And to top it off, a sandstorm has elminated air cover. Heartburn time. I hope iraqis dont dump all the divisions in the area on top of the 3rd.

Mad Dog

I imagine their worried about small groups sneaking into Iraq from Iran to make trouble (ie, Iranian special forces, whatever they call them) rather than a full-scale invasion. That would certainly be, um, interesting.

Looks like we need another 1-2 divisions for this fight AND another couple in reserve for stuff like this. Too bad they aren't there. . .

"14 mins"

I think SeanPaul's a programmer; we inhale :)

ed, don't like the implications of what?

"no US heavy units in reserve or scheduled to show up"

Because people named Cheney, Bush, Perle, Rumsfeld and so on decided long ago they weren't needed, that Iraq would cave in even faster than they did when Daddy went in.

Now Tommy Franks is taking flak for it. If the GRU is to be believed, he was criticized by Rummy for not being able to run a battle, and because his field commanders were not sufficiently "bold".

The incompetent always blame their subordinates.

I paid for the pizza last night( or maybe the soda, or the beer, I forget) Anyway thanks!

ABC News is reporting that Iraqi Television has been bombed.

Saw note on Drudge, no link. It sez "Baghdad can wait."

Looks like 3 ID is going to park outside Baghdad for a few and wait for 4 ID?

Meanwhile the UK and the Marines clean up the south?

The 4th ID may be closer to action than many would believe. Plenty of heavy armor on our ships on the Red Sea. Lots of ports in the Red Sea.

Yanbo...
Aqaba...

chris:

Well, you have a "yo" in your email addy, so that inclines me to believe you might be on the right side of Eagles/Giants debates.

is actually nobody interested in
1) Franks statement (no move until 29th)
2) Terror attack threat in D.C
3) 7:59 EST 101st is currently engaged in western flank protection for 3rd ID. 3ID will have some other action presently but they are farther north than reported.

or is there not a single source out there that even mentions 1,2 and 3 above (besides agonist)
lets all try to find at least a hint of... NEWS not rumor or chit chat

I am in shock and awe over how many people have such weak hearts over this war. Apparently, they read the package, decided to igrnore the warnings like "baking time varies according to your oven", popped it into the Microwave, and impatiently await the promised results. Hey, how come this war doesn't look like it did on the package? Amazing how spoiled Gulf-1 has made people. Now, we get a steady stream of second guessing and arm-chair generals who base their assessments on publicly available news sources and boldly declare how it's being handled all wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I don't defend Franks, Rumsfeld, etc.. but I also don't know enough about what's REALLY going on, being planned, what the opposition is doing or capable of doing, etc. I don't feel confident about berating the current (known) progress of the war effort as if I could do better. I would submit that none of us here do, for that matter. Flame away at their strategy and tactics, but it might be appropriate to occasionally acknowledge that we're not military strategists with access to the intel and data we would need to successfully conduct much more than a beer run let alone a bomb run. ;-)

lb

Anyone remember a analogous situation 52 years ago with a tired force strung out over a long distance, chasing a beaten enemy only to get hammered? Luckily I don't see 200,000 Chinese hiding near Baghdad.

Colin Powell is live on CBS..."48 Hours Investigates"

josh, napalm (a fine Canadian invention, I am told) was banned in a 1980 treaty the US still refuses to sign.

Weapon of mass destruction? I don't think I would call it that, no moreso than I would say that of a flamethrower. However, that doesn't make either one acceptable battlefield weapons.

Some may ask, what about fuel-air explosives (FAE)? Different story, those actually explode; napalm is like pouring burning gasoline on someone (well, not "like" it, it =is=).

I'm loving the site - I've been using a mirror and RSS as much as possible. I'm not sure why, but the RSS feed I'm getting is not transmiting the HTML links so I'm constantly back to the site to find linked articles. Not sure if it's your end or mine.

Keep up the good work. As Demosthenes said, you're doing the best job on the web of just reporting news, and keeping the editorials to a minimum.

That BBC story was weak on any details about an Iranian connection to the Basra uprising.

Side note to anyone worrying about civil strife in the south, or Iraq in general, it's part of the plan:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A11854-2003Mar22.html

(Though I don't think Iranian involvement was envisioned.)

copy from the Eating Dinner comments:
Iran intercepts Iraqi speedboats loaded with explosives

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/03/26/1048354634465.html

Posted by eek at March 25, 2003 09:44 PM

Re: "Uprising" in Basra

This whole uprising in Basra thing seems a bit fishy to me. Here is two lines of thoughts about that:

Could it be some psyops to try to stir something inside the city?
Or maybe some black op? We all know special ops people operating in the area (SAS, SBS + Polish Special Ops)

Just some hunch. Anybody can support any of this wild speculation on my part?

4th ID may be closer to action

Then how long to unload the 30-odd ships, load the transports and then drive the 1000 (more?) km to some convenient assembly area, unload the transports, service their cargo to make sure it will work, marry up the vehicles with their crews, drive to the start line...

now we're at HHour. Predictions anyone?

God bless our troops! They are in my prayers at almost every moment.

Is there anyway you can set your links to open in a new window. I keep having to go back, causing a reload or 'open in a new window' which sucks.

Anyway..great site, and go USA & GB!

BTW CNN/MSNBC/FOX news sucks!

It appears that we're trying to bribe Turkey again, this time to keep their kids in their own yard... $8.5 billion of the $75 billion interim war budget is for direct loans or loan guarantees for Turkey.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=2447124

it's part of the plan

It's amazing, isn't it, how nothing has happened in the past 5-odd days that was NOT part of the plane?

Everything is still on schedule too.

I understand the first of the chemical plants turned out to be just that a chemical plant (no WMD). Any word on the other one in the North?

Napalm was developed by DuPont. I know it sounds Canadian (or maybe French. hmm. ;) but they're a Delaware corporation.

Someone asked about refugees.

New York Times on Kurdish Refugees in northern Iraq: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/25/international/worldspecial/25REFU.html

Voice of America says that refugees are not leaving Iraq: http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=98FA422F-D1E1-48F1-82317FEFEB2A5602#

Claude B:
debka.com claims that the "uprising" is one we've imported from Qatar...shi'ite expatriates we've trained to fight for us...bay-of-pigs style.

'Al-Qaeda camp' in Iraq hit

But like he said earlier today "Those retired military analysts just don't know the plan!"

Apparently, his career military personnel "just don't know the plan", either, considering his public slapdown of Shinseki a couple of weeks ago over force size.

"Looks like we need another 1-2 divisions for this fight AND another couple in reserve for stuff like this. Too bad they aren't there. . ."
Actually, the US doesn't have that many divisions anymore. Our infantry, like other military technology, has been trending for a while now towards fewer units more highly (and lethally) equipped. I believe the army is at ten divisions now and the Marine corps capable of the equivalent of a couple more. So four more would be quite difficult without calling up the reserves. This situation calls into question the approach we have taken. Supply line security doesn't need anything like the equipment and lethality of the 3rd ID. It mostly needs large numbers of fairly lightly armed troops. Something to evaluate when this is over.

I think Nic Robertson said on CNN that Iraqi TV is probably out all over Iraq. Nobody is allowed to own a satellite.

Satelitte, internet, Iraqi TV has been coming in intermintingly.

Cheez whiz,
Shockey for president!

My bro flies EA6b Prowlers for the Marines. He's been there for quite sometime. He's the kind a guy you WANT ON THAT LINE, the kinda guy you NEED on that line. I detect that some on this blog are rooting against a US victory. I have had varied opinions on the morality of war etc etc but my opinion no longer counts. I just want my bro to be safe and do the best job he can do. Remember that fellow Americans. there are MEN ready to die for your right to sit around and discuss troop movments (etc)like you know what you are talking about!

Semper Fidelis. Hoo Rah

as if I could do better. I would submit that none of us here do, for that matter.

Any raw recruit could come up with a plan that is better than what was used here.

The difference, as always, is in how the plan was executed.

There is an adage in military planning: even a poor plan, well executed, is better than a perfect plan poorly executed. It is also true that any plan is better than no plan at all.

The one exception to that second rule might be this war; don't for one moment think that Gen Franks dreamed it up, no one would ever make it above the rank of Captain if he came up with plans like this. No sir, this plan came out of the bowels of the White House.

Tommy Franks and his staff, and of course also the local field commanders, have made the difference. Now we shall see whether or not he has enough resources to be able to continue to make a difference.

I am hoping that he does, but I am not placing bets on it (nor am I betting against him either, so relax folx.)

3ID waiting for 4ID? What, you mean Jeff Goldblum and Will Smith?

One other thing (just got home from work) forgive me if this discussed earlier - on the BBC it says: "Military officials say a US F-16 fighter jet shot at a Patriot missile defence battery near Najaf in central Iraq." How many of our Patriot batteries are deployed in Iraq as opposed to Israel and Kuwait?

Those British public opinion numbers don't add up.

"Three-quarters of respondents ...feel that the number of coalition troops killed in accidents so far has been unexpectedly high." Meanwhile "48% believe that the number of Britons and Americans killed by Iraqi troops has been either 'fewer' or 'far fewer' than could be expected."

What are they saying? Everyone thought they were more optomistic than everyone else?

One shouldn't confuse unexpectedly high casualties with decreasing support for the way, long term or short term. In past wars, at least in the case of America, increased casualties actually increases support for a war unless they are so high that it seems like we are losing. It's a rally-behind-the-troops effect.

This is the most important paragraph:

"But support for the war effort as a whole remains steady, with 56% of people believing that the US and Britain are right to launch military action against Iraq."

We're in it so we better win it. John McCain said something like that re Bosnia/Kosovo. Seems like the appropriate attitude at this point.

Uh-oh...I'm way wrong.

I'll have you know that Philly invented the word "Yo."

Putting aside those hostilities (my allegiance to the Eagles has been sorely tested after this season anyway) I hope that your brother and his unit remains safe and well. I didn't want this war, I'm suspicious of our tactics, but I'm glad for good committed men like your brother. They can help dig us out of most holes we find ourselves in...

Dispatches from Corriere della Sera

Japan refuses US Ambassador's request to close Iraqi Embassy .

Blair says UN must play a central role in rebuilding Iraq.

Rumsfeld backtracks on calling for uprising against Saddam.

"Nothing could bring home the rightness of this campaign in Iraq - and the deluded wrongness of the peace movement - like the sight that greeted the 54th Engineer Battalion (and this writer) yesterday morning in a string of small towns on Route 8 near the city of Nasiriyah in southern Iraq.

In village after dusty village, the people - most presumably Shiites - rushed out to greet the troops. They lined the highway: portly older men, teenage boys, little girls in brightly colored pajamas, waving, giving the thumbs-up sign and smiling."

Liberation

chris, that last post was for you...

maybe it was a Canadian who invented the brand of napalm that sticks to people's skin

(getting sick at the thought? Please do, then write to your Senators and Representative, and demand the US sign the treaty banning this shit)

i guess the cheez whiz refers to Gino's? as for the war, remember that the largest part of the news that we will NEVER be able to receive will NEVER be available to us. and that is war. It is hell, lest we grow to fond of it.

Lee: remember, the "thumbs up" might not mean what you think it means...

Chris:

Actually, I'm a Pat's Steaks guy myself.

As for everything else you say, I can only say....tru dat.

To go to a link without leaving Agonist:

Right click on the link and choose: Open in New Window

BBC TV:
B-52's taxiing in Fairfield UK

F-16s and patriots - This is a traditional problem with anti-aircraft. No matter how much training you put the gunners through and how earnestly you warn them, they generally constitute a mortal danger to your planes. A battle is just not a very good place for exercising the judgement required to separate friend from foe. During the invasion of Sicily hundreds of soldiers were lost in gliders (!) shot down by our own men. Today the distinction is supposed to be automated with radio devices that broadcasr and recognize the identification. These incidents suggest that a few bugs still need to be worked out.

Sasch74,

just open comments w/ right mouse and open link in new window and then use regular search (via edit or ctrl +f)

Thanks for that tip. Ctrl+F also seems to work in the regular popup Comments window (at least in Internet Explorer).

You can apparently use Google to search Sean's archives (for some reason it doesn't work with his current entries). Try it like this:

1. Open Google's main page.

2. In their search field, enter the text "site:", followed by Sean's domain name "agonist.org", followed by a blank space, followed by your search term(s). A complete search string might look something like this:

site:agonist.org iraq war

3. Click the "Google Search" button, and here's the result:

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=site%3Aagonist.org+iraq+war&btnG=Google+Search

4. Play with the search terms for additional results.

raven: Was Dupont Canadian?

Nope. Here's the scoop, right from the official Dupont web site (http://heritage.dupont.com/)

"E.I. du Pont was the younger of two sons born to Paris watchmaker Pierre Samuel du Pont who, by the 1780s, had become a noted political economist, a rising government official, and an advocate of free trade. At age 14, E.I. wrote a paper on the manufacture of gunpowder and, with his father’s assistance, gained a position at France’s central powder agency. There he had studied advanced explosives production techniques with the famous chemist Antoine Lavoisier. In 1791, after the onset of the French Revolution, he gave up powder-making to assist in his father’s small printing and publishing business. The du Ponts’ moderate political views proved a liability in revolutionary France. In 1797 a mob ransacked their printing shop and they were briefly imprisoned. In late 1799 they fled to America.

[...]"

To go to a link without leaving Agonist:

Right click on the link and choose: Open in New Window

----

Or hold down the Shift key when you click on a link.

Quick analysis: if the 3rd ID was really counterattacked during the sandstorm by Saddam's best division, the Medina, and they really inflicted 400-500 casualties on the Medina forces, and we really suffered no casualties, as reported, or at least no dead, then we are doing very, very well. It will only be a matter of time--perhaps only days.

i knew one of them was exclusively Cheez Whiz only. thought it was Gino's. I bet some have been killed for less! i really think that these weblogs are one of the best things to happen to the internet, i would like to thank all involved for putting forth such an incredible tool for everyone to use. As a trader at a hedge fund, the first site that i check out are not the mainstream news publications (god knows how spotty BBC has been as far as FACTUAL reporting goes. and thats not a bust on them per se, but that whole Bin Laden report amongst other things has got red flags going up when it comes to this Basra incident) but the blogs. And with that, off to bed.

keep up the good work

Semper Fi

hey lee:

you do know that in the arab world the thumbs up sign is equivalent to giving the finger?

no? obviously neither did that reporter. that report is NOT a good thing.

remember, the "thumbs up" might not mean what you think it means...

In the context, I think it's a safe bet.

re cheering shi'a in um qasr:

an arabic speaking royal marine was just shown on nbc talking to um qasr residents as they received food rations and water. when asked whether they were asking for food and water in arabic, he replied with a smile: "food and water -- they're asking for cigarettes."

Has Sean ever posted his CIA comments?

Sydney Morning Herald carries Russian intelligence report on the Iraq War

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/03/26/1048354636194.html

"A decision was made to change the way aviation is used in this war. The use of precision-guided munitions will be scaled down and these weapons will be reserved for attacking only known, confirmed targets. There will be an increase in the use of conventional high-yield aviation bombs, volume-detonation bombs and incendiary munitions. The USAF command is ordered to deliver to airbases used against Iraq a two-week supply of aviation bombs of 1-tonn caliber and higher as well as volume-detonation and incendiary bombs. This means that Washington is resorting to the "scorched earth" tactics and carpet-bombing campaign"

Scorched earth? It is Viet Nam!

It was reported by Ted Koppel/ABC that two M1A1 Abrams tanks of 3rd ID were knocked out by truck mounted anti-tank missiles (he called these technicals).

These would be the first M1 tanks ever destroyed in combat - in Gulf I there were cases of M1 tanks being hit a dozen times by T-72 rounds without more than superficial damage.

Seems the Russians have been teaching lessons about how to get to the more vulnerable flanks/rear before firing the ATGMs they've supplied.

"This means that Washington is resorting to the "scorched earth" tactics and carpet-bombing campaign" If true, it may just mean that we are using up our stocks of smart bombs very fast.

BBC TV:
B-52's taxiing in Fairfield UK

Man, that's a long taxiway. Sean-Paul reported yesterday morning that the Buffs were leaving RAF Fairfield... BBC reported it late last night... and they're still taxiing! ;)

Australian PM John Howard will not attend Blair/Bush summit on Thursday (Corriere)

I guess not, since peace demostrators stormed Parliament in Canberra yesterday.

The thumbs up discussion took place several flashes ago. Check the archives.

Ianboy, you should always plan for the worst. As far as we know, Gen Franks has no serious reserves in case of something going not-to-plan. Franks has about 4 divisions (as far as we know) to cover all of Iraq. Thats mighty thin.

As I said, things seem to be going ok for now, but the margin of safety is thinner than it should be. Why take chances using a minimalist set of forces ?

Mad Dog

pesi: context, man, context. Waving and smiling Iraqis may not fit your theory of how Iraqis should behave towards Americans, but nevertheless, there you are.

http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20030325/4986072s.htm

On a sligthly different note, regarding the buildup and planning for the war, and when the decision to invade Iraq was made...

Please note the paragraph that reads:

And NBC has spent nearly a year planning to outshine rivals in Iraq, including developing new technology to send live, broadcast-quality video from moving vehicles at the front. ''Compare it to what everybody else has,'' Shapiro told the President's Council that day as NBC introduced the technology with MSNBC correspondent David Bloom. ''CNN has a shaky video phone which looks like a bad video game. Fox has a camera that tilts and is grainy and gets blinded by the dust. So I know the competition can't believe what we have.

''We did a lot of secret work to get it done. We developed it in Florida. We did a lot of testing on the highways. Then it took a lot of politicking to get it in (Iraq) and make it part of a convoy without letting anybody else know about it.''

Did you see it?

"Nearly a year"...

Please note who owns NBC...that would be GE.

Uhhh-huh.

Sure.

(Kudos to atrios)

Anyone else amazed that Drudge ain't had a single scoop? Not one? usually his allies in the admin toss him a bone or two...

It was reported by Ted Koppel/ABC that two M1A1 Abrams tanks of 3rd ID were knocked out by truck mounted anti-tank missiles (he called these technicals).

Are you sure you heard "technicals" or did he say "tacticals", which is mil-slang for weapons used in combat (as opposed to "strategics")?

MSNBC just reported (actually Nadim Ladki from Reuters in Baghdad) said that Iraqi TV is off at this hour no matter what. We will have to see later in the day/night (whereever you are) if it comes back on.....

Colin Powell is unable to confirm that there was an uprising yesterday in Basra (Agence France Presse)

http://www.afp.com/francais/home/

Interesting article on how the Brits captured the Baath leader in Basra:

The British stage snatch raid

Lee:

agreed. though i think at the same time we should all know by now to take reports of petals in the streets with a grain of salt...

it never hurts to be cautious.

Aren't "technicals" old pickup trucks full of armed men? The term comes from Somalia if I recall correctly.

So they got AT missiles on pickup trucks?

Mad Dog,

>I hope iraqis dont dump all the divisions in the area on top of the 3rd.<

It won't happen. That said, I disagree that it would be a bad thing. I mean, it'd be bad for the 3rd, but not for the war. Even everything the Iraqis could bring to bear in a reasonable period of time couldn't overtake a full division in defensive positions with air and long-range artillary support. The Iraqis would get slaughtered. Plus if the 3rd retreated and the Iraqis pursued, it would open up the other forces to charge Baghdad. It might significantly reduce urban combat, where casualties will be highest, medical and air support are the hardest to get, and civillian deaths are highest.

The Iraqi strategy, I expect, will be pretty simple: wait till we cross the "red line," open up on us with every piece of conventional heavy artillary (and perhaps chemical and biological) they have, run for the city, and try to create a bloodbath and a humanitarian crisis. Then they reinvigorate harassment of the supply lines and hope groups of Coalition forces run out of small ammo.

Our goal will be to use airborne and some special forces from the Northwest to block the scramble to the city while a distraction force harasses the northeast of the city directly in hopes of drawing the city garrison's attention away from the light forces blocking the southern entry. The ability of the distraction force to draw fire and the airborne to block entry into the city until the mechanized units can roll over the sandwhiched Republican Guard will determine the length of the conflict.

I know this isn't top secret stuff.

M1A1 "knocked out" or destroyed?

A busted track can knock a M1A1 out...did Ted actually show us burning tanks?

DONATE!

What I'm trying to figure out is, why has the pentagon allowed iraq state tv to stay on the air so long? It seems like it ought to have been an early target, since without it the people of iraq would be more convinced that things aren't going well in baghdad.

The only reason I can think of, is that maybe leaving it on was their best bet on figuring out if saddam really survived their initial "decapitation" strike.

Anyone know how to become one of Sean-Paul's "special readers?"

I'd be suprized if a M1A1 was destroyed by any sort of missile you could put on a truck, unless they got behind it or something.

"Knocked out" could refer to a track being broken or something.

I would just like to say that I really enjoy your site thus far. I have only been on a couple of days, but you seem to be very accurate on your finding and un-biast for the most part in at least the reporting section of your posts. I would like to note to the numerous people out there that are/were against the war. --- Picture yourself going to school every day and getting beat up by some pretty big bullies. They tell you that if you say anything, you will receive a horrible death. Then one day, an even bigger guy comes along sticks up for you against the bully. That is exactly what has been going on with the Iraqi people for 30+ years -- After the first war in '91, Saddam hurded all the people that stood up against him into concentration camps and killed some of them by putting them in tubs of acid. I will also note, in favor of this arguement, that is exactly why the Iraqi people stood up against the Iraqi military today when the Marines were invading. Oh ya, and followed by Mortor rounds being launched at them from the Iraqi Military.

Um guys, is it me, or has the pentagon become more ofuscatory? There is a faint whiff and I don't know if it's from the current info about engagements in Basra and Al Najaf, or my own fart, but I think something is smelling here...anybody else have something to show that really supports pentagon and brit claims? 300 iraquis dead and no casualties on our side? uhhhhh

raven: Was Dupont Canadian?

I have been quite placid, I think, in reading some of what I think is neo-fascist opinion posted by some in here, and I have been quite patient at the utter lack of understanding of Arabic and Islamic societies displayed by many others.

What I will not abide is the complete fabrication of a statement, which is then alleged to have been written or said by someone else.

How should I interpret this, Claude? Did you simply misunderstand what I actually did say?

mark:

this is purely wild speculation on my part... but i think the reason why iraqi tv wasn't bombed from the start is that there may have been a special ops plan to take over the station and use it for propaganda purposes. that failing, you bomb it.

shah8:

I definitely am suspicious of the Basra story. I think we had some kind of op going on there, using imported shiites (a la debka.com), and its not clear if that op succeeded or not.

raven, please fire away if you think i am a facist. debate is healthy

From what I have heard, the attack was by infantry armed with heavy MGs and RPGs against 3ID's M1-A1s. As the Colonel on CNN said, this indicates these guys are ready to fight hard. Imagine, on foot, in a sandstorm, against tanks.

Unfortunately for them, that tactic means they are all dead. I invite them to continue that plan of attack. They can charge the Abrams tank all day long on foot. No problem. Just keep pouring the cold water on the machine gun barrel and maybe run over a few of em on the way.

M1A1 destroyed?

For once, I agree with something Parisan has said; I won't believe any armoured vehicle has been destroyed, unless someone has seen it "brew up", or inspected it and found a hole in the armour.

For the person who's been asking about a reported terror threat in D.C., I remember a blurb on MSNBC this afternoon about an evacuation on Capitol Hill...have heard nothing since, don't know if that was related to the threat.

Any word on damage to tanks/helicopters etc. from the storm. It must be a bitch dealing with the fine sand. Also recall hearing something on CNN about families of MIAs/POWs being cautioned against speaking to the press, because this information might be used by the Iraqi's for psychological effects, how about the fact that no-one is telling these families anything?

anybody else have something to show that really supports pentagon and brit claims? 300 iraquis dead and no casualties on our side?

Just heard Jamie Mcentyre (butchered spelling, no doubt) on CNN say the 300-500 number is inflated. More like 150-200. Also, MSNBC reports "coalition" casualties, but no further details.

This blog reminds me of the Giants/Eagles fan message board.

There won't be any winners in this new War Game, only losers. There might be a new draft, though.

Hope springs eternal with each new generation: that's why we keep playing the same Game over and over.

Thanks dack, that makes me feel much better. Plus, I would have no idea whether m1a1 tank busting can happen by the back of the truck. You know, I keep gameplanning the iraqi side in this, and under the circumstances, it comes down to speed, which would mean maybe using things like trucks or atvs to handle stuff, but I always come to a dead stop when I think about how a truck or atv can handle something heavy enough to handle a tank.

Jsut another confirmation on the Iraq TV. Jazeera has said it was off and that the info. min. was a target this morning. Also, they are still saying no uprising in Basra. Maybe it was special ops.

M1A1 "knocked out" or destroyed?

A busted track can knock a M1A1 out...did Ted actually show us burning tanks?

BBC is reporting them as "damaged".

Man!!!!! Such a great effort. I don't know how you do this. I visit this site regularly since it was mentioned on NPR/WNYC radio station. They said that you sometimes get news before the media.
War sucks, I hope you don't get deppressed of all troubling news.
Al-Jazeera website has been off all day today, not sure why.

Keep going man, you are doing a great job.

Brian, partisan: I don't know any more. To paraphrase what Koppel said:

"Military report that the two M1s knocked out were not knocked out by the Republican Guard, they were instead knocked out by technicals...by missiles on a truck."

Of course, I doubt that ATGMs would be dispersed among militia or Feyadeen - these were more likely RGs that were using trucks as a missile platform.

As to whether there was turret/hull penetration by the ATGMs, I don't know. Unlikely if using the Yom Kippor war era Saggers that are in the Iraqi in the area, but there were reports that, along with the night vision goggles and GPS jammers, there were some ATGMs in the Russian shipments to Iraq.

chris: please fire away...

Hey, I said I was placid, are you trying to upset my inner peace? :)

on casualty figures: those have been suspect from day 1. The Brits, for example, admitted their second battle fatality only after they had been engaged at Basra for nearly 3 days.

Uh huh.

on Iraqi TV: perhaps the messages from the Big Cheese were having too great an impact on the Iraqi people. It's also possible this is an admission that the tactical situaton is far worse than they are letting on.

The official line will, as always, be that it was taken out now "on schedule, in complete agreement with the original plan".

Bassam:

Rumor has it that aljazeera.net is experiencing a distributed denial of service attack. don't know if that's been confirmed.
could be high traffic.

raven: Was Dupont Canadian?

Probably a misunderstanding... I'm not here to flame anyone.

Al Jazeera is apparently a very biast and probably, Suddam run, media content. They showed pictures on a site I was at earlier and had live media feeds to an English broadcaster saying that they received word of the uprising, and then noticed the morter rounds re-directed at a locatin in the city -- followed by word that the mortor rounds were being directed at the civilians. They then had to redcirect their fire to subdue the morter round fire.

Marines line up on Iranian border:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/03/26/wiran26.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/03/26/ixnewstop.html

pesi:

I think you are close to the truth there. I believe that the coalition probably did have some sort of plan to use the station to their benefit. We must remember that during the first bombing the coalition "hi-jacked" one of the main Iraqi radio stations. If nothing else, they probably kept it going for whatever information it provided. Several "top stories" the last few days have come from Iraqi TV events. Also, another reason for leaving it alone would be whether or not it could be considered a legitimate target under international laws of war. However, I think after the POW incident it was marked fairly quickly as a target. At that point coalition leaders realized the negative impact that type of coverage was more damaging to them than to the Iraqi regime. As a matter of fact, with the now delayed media coverage from the "embedded" journalists with coalition troops, I think the commanders are deciding that all this media coverage hasn't been all that positive on this side either. I would point fingers at the mainline news media for building up peoples hopes for a four day war before I would point at the Bush Administration.

Al Jazeera ain't Saddam run. I'm sure they have some sympathy for him in this conflict, but they are equally the news source for many of his enemies (kurds to the norht, the iranians, shiite marsh muslims in basra...if they have a TV).

Would be interesting to compare press conference transcripts from last week and this week given all the backtracking by Rummy and Ari Fleischer today. Did anyone note Rumsfeld's comment about the Feyhdeen (sp.) today? What a joke.

I would not expect the 24th MEU to return home any time soon as they are the spearhead of Expeditionary Force 22 on the Western Front of the U.S. war on Iraq. EF22 also has British troops plus special forces from the U.S., Britain, Jordan and Israel.

BBC TV is speculating an "E=Bomb" was used to knock out Iraqi TV....any one know what this is? Presumable an EMP device, but I only knew about one way to do that. Which I don't think we did.

To any fellow tri-staters:
If you're bored with the news channels, Charlie Rose right now has Thomas Friedman, Jon Lee Anderson in Baghdad, & an expert on intelligence Pentagon has, didn't catch the name.

Anyone else amazed that Ted Koppel's 65 year-old bones are still creaking along after 5 days in a Bradley?

I don't think I could make it, and I'm only 32. The dude must be sitting on his hairpiece, just to take away some of the jolts.

This site has gone through so much in the past few days, that I thought I would post a rather personal view of the changes I've seen in hopes that newcomers might understand the phenomenon a little better. I heard about this site on Friday from a piece in Slate. It was described as basically a guy who was watching CNN and blogging the interesting stuff. I don't have cable, and wouldn't want to have it running 24/7 if I did, so it seemed like an interesting way to keep up on the war without all the clutter. By Friday the community had grown large enough that people were able to contribute interesting updates from Fox, MSNBC, and on-line sources. It was a wonderful way to cut through all the BS and get a pretty good picture of what was actually hapening in Iraq.

The other aspect that I liked about it was that there was no attempt to spin the facts. This was journalism in it's purest form. Trying to report as accurately as possible what was happening. Don't try to tell me what I should think about it. This weekend, this site kept me sane. Since the Faukland crisis, it's been painfully obvious that wars and major crises expose the flaws of the media and I was so glad to find this site.

Since then, it has experienced growing pains. Besides the obvious bandwidth issues and the annoying back-and-forth chatter on the comments page, there is a more subtle issue of unsourced information. Who are these people and what are they trying to gain by leaking stuff through this site? Personally, I could do without it. I know enough about how "news" is created in this manner through the major media that I would tell them to take it somewhere else.

I hate to see Sean Paul get bogged down in all the technical issues, but maybe were just in a slower news cycle right now. In any case, I hope we'll be ready for when it heats up again.

ANU predicts chemical war with days

Ted looks horrible -- He looks like a cartoon character with all the orange make-up.

"You put so much stock in winning wars. The real trick lies in
losing wars, in knowing which wars can be lost. Italy has been losing wars
for centuries, and just see how spendidly we've done nonetheless. France
wins wars and is in a continual state of crisis. Germany loses and
prospers. Look at our own recent history. Italy won a war in Ethiopia and
promptly stumbled into serious trouble. Victory gave us such insane
delusions of grandeur that we helped start a world war we hadn't a chance
of winning. But now that we're losing again, everything has taken a turn
for the better, and we will certainly come out on top again if we succeed
in being defeated."

Catch 22 (of course)

Michael: If I am not mistaken, there is no air support in this sandstorm. Sure, having the Rep. Gd come out an play on an open field is an invitation to a quick death for the Iraqis, but the odds are less in our favor in the situation the 3rd is in at the moment (long supply lines, tired, with no air support).

As for Bagdad, I have to agree. I think that if they intend to use chem weapons, they wait until US forces have formed up for an assault then dump everything they have. Saddam has nothing to lose.

However, it might be a while before US forces reach the city with much more units. Will 1st marine be forced to "police" southern Iraq for the duration ?

Mad Dog

The Sydney Morning Herald:

Navy alert to suicide attacks after speedboat bomb intercepted

rw:

here's some e-bomb articles:

http://www.theweeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/002/209qmchb.asp

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,78375,00.html

Thoughts...

1) How different the campaign would be if Northern front ie. 4ID drive from Kurdistan would have been possible (Thanks Turkey)

2) Begining the campaign earlier by saying bite me to the UN would have kept us from having to fight the weather along with Republican Guards etc.

3) Prediction France joins coalition on April 1st!!!! Get it? :-)

Thanks Sean and to all a good night, Remember the Aussies, Brits, Poles and our GI's!!!

al-jazeera was originally funded by the emir of qatar, and is currently based there - the same kingdom that is hosting Centcom and this little soiree in Iraq.

They're also one of the most democratic and progessive (not to mention wealthy) of the arab states. Interesting 60 minutes segment on Qatar aired a couple of weeks ago.. they're building a huge new medical school in partnership with Cornell U.

HI man, listen I don't know whether you have seen this.

It is about you, worth mentioning.
http://www.wnyc.org/onthemedia/transcripts_032103_stream.html

take care

Civilians use axes and knives in Basra uprising

Instapundit was just on BBC Radio 5. He mentioned you, Sgt. Stryker, and the Command Post.

So 1000 Iraqi troops are keeping Basra under wraps? turning mortar fire onto the civilians to keep them in line? Time to take the gloves off and finish this thing.

sasch74:
As to the DC terror alert thing, I asked about that myself. In an earlier post a reader said it had been on a FOX affiliate in DC, but it doesn't seem to be featured on their website, or on other local ones I try.

Not to complain, but that seems like an awfully big thing to just put out there unsubstantiated and then leave hanging.

Killing the enemy media (litteraly) has been standard policy ever since Yugoslavia.

I wonder when our own media will wake up and figure out that sooner or later someone will do the same to them.

The media should not accept this, and take apropriate action, such as unbiased reporting.

agonist-fan

Thank you FOO -- I just finished writing a post about that. Al Jazeera IS indeed biast. --- They might not be Saddam run, but they do seem to try and deliver the news from a very pro-Saddam point of view.

Foo:

Oh God...that was sourced to the clowns in the Iraqi National Congress? With every story on that "rebellion" I'm becoming more and more convinced its special ops/psywar.

Which is fine. It's not me they're trying to convince.

Cheese -- you seem so caught up in your own self glorification, that you can't even admit something as simple as a small Civil uprising. It was reported from many different sources --- Oh, but that's right -- Al Jazeera didn't report it, so it can't be true. Anyway, like you said -- It's not you they're trying to convince, so neither will I. God Bless.

Civilians use axes and knives in Basra uprising

Daily Telegraph. Murdoch. Treat as suspect.

Claiming that Iraqi troops are training mortar fire on an alleged uprising in Basra provides good cover for the civilian casualties certain to result from putting even JDAM bombs into civilian-targets-that-might-have military-use and coducting strikes that "wipe" things "off maps." It allows the coalition to take the restraints off the troops who clearly are upset about not being able to fire at will in the city while still having a scapegoat (some of the articles talk about the coalition troop frustration at the rules of engagement). Just a thought, pure speculation, no real sources, etc.

interesting: your claims that Al-Jazeera is run by Hussain or Iraq are clueless. Al-Jazeera is based in Qatar. A good backgrounder is at http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,890745,00.html

US Official Accuses Iraqis of Executing POWs

Interesting:

first off, its Cheez, with "Z". There ain't no cheese in Cheez Whiz.

Secondly, I don't believe its a popular uprising because it fits a pattern with how we've been fighting this war. We've been trying to psych out the Iraqis. So, how to do that in this town: make the occupiers think the townsfolk are rising up against them. Import some fighters/special ops guys to stir up some trouble...hope the real populace joins in or at least make the Iraqi soldiers think the real populace is joining in. Create some nice propaganda for the folks at home. It's a good war strategy, if it works.

Why I think this isn't the case: because the intelligence has been too sketchy. If we're running into the heart of town and catching Baath party leaders, we'd know about this. Because the sources are all military intelligence types, or in the case of the story Foo posted, the laughable Iraqi National Congress a resistance group with no appreciable following and that puts up no resistance to speak of.

It's a fine tactic, if that's what it is. I just hope it works.

Regarding alleged Al jazeera bias, they have reported that sources are saying there is an uprising, their reporter said that from his vantage point (only reporter who seems to be in the streets in Basra) there were no angry mobs, and they contacted Iraqi government to see their view, they have also discussed it with American officials. I would not call that Biased. I would call say they are trying to get all sides and maybe try to find out what is going on. they are not saying it is impossible or for sure that it did not happen, they are saying they have not seen proof.

They would be clueless if they were, indeed, my claims. I don't think they are Iriqi or Saddam run, just biast on the whole war.

"How many of our Patriot batteries are deployed in Iraq as opposed to Israel and Kuwait?"

I don't have any numbers, but they're portable and the follow the troops to protect against missle attacks.

Interestingly, the first five POWs were from the 507th Maintenance Company which is attached to Patriot Missle batteries.

I'd say Al-Jazeera is less Iraq-biased than Fox is US-biased...

CheezeWiz: Just for you

Academic doubts Iraqi uprising

Storms on the horizon.

From a current Drudge link (my apologies, Sean).

Washington Post
U.S. Military Treats Weather Forecasts Like Secrets
Tuesday, March 25, 2003; 6:55 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27886-2003Mar25.html

"As for Tuesday's severe sandstorm buffeting U.S.-led operations, commander Frooninckx [1] said the squadron saw it coming five days ago.

"This storm system is one of the largest and most severe, if not the largest I've ever seen in Iraq, and I've been tracking the weather there for 18 years," he said. Some of Tuesday's sand-laden winds reached 60 mph."

1. Lt. Col. Tom Frooninckx is Commander of the USAF Operational Weather Squadron in Shaw Air Force Base, South Carolina.

They are down there hours after mortar rounds were fired at the groups. I do think mortar rounds would have a slight tendancy to deter a crowd.

Foo:
See, I ain't the only one with doubts.

And for what its worth I *like* the strategy I've outlined. I ain't criticizing it. I just think it's a little cleverer than the media realizes.

"Lee: remember, the 'thumbs up' might not mean what you think it means..."

OK, we're all grown-ups here. Could somebody tell us exactly what it is supposed to mean in Arab cultures?

Latest headline from Borg News Service:

"Breathless and nervous warmongers swallow whole any bit of propaganda or spin released by the media, remain silent when retractions, corrections, or "interesting" absence of follow up stories is noted"

Al Jazeera, Mosul air raid siren on again. Expecting attacks.

Psychological operations adviser says Basra uprising came sooner than expected

anyone have a link to the e-bomb report at the BBC ?

Perhaps we are the Mongols, after all.

From yet another Drudge link.

Washington Post
In an Ominous Sky, a City Divines Its Fate
Wednesday, March 26, 2003
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28995-2003Mar25.html

Thank you cheese -- I agree with everything on that site --- Just to let you all know a little where I'm coming from --- 3 days ago, CNN had one of the head Al Jazeera people on and it was a debate the whole time. It was in regards to the images portrayed of the dead soldiers on their network. The Al Jazeeran defense was that CNN showed pics of Iraqi POW's, so we are just as bad. -- The retort to that was that we were not showing picture of Execute, or even dead people. What they did was wrong, and now it seems they are taking it personal and acting as a media outlet for the Iraqis expressing their views.
As for trying to find an excuse for why the military fired rounds on it's own people -- Just think of it happening in the US -- and what the feedback of that would be.

Cheez:

PsyOps concocting the Basra uprising would serve what purpose?

FOX (D.C.) was only reporting that the FBI was looking for this woman from Pakistan. In an earlier comment I said that there wasn't any mention on the local news regarding the Montgomery County Airport. Sorry for any confusion.

Peter Shriner said:

>>Hope springs eternal with each new generation: that's why we keep playing the same Game over and over.<<

Not exactly, though "Game" theory certainly explains why. It's a basic prisoner's dilemma. We keep fighting because if we don't we're afraid the other guy definitely will. Conflicts are inevitable and the only question is 'will they escalate?' Communication can overcome this problem, but not when the other side refuses to listen, or "misunderestimates" our willingness to enforce the agreement.

We are willing to enforce agreements because, as the world's biggest player, we are a constant repeat player.

Peaceful negotiation and agreement is always preferable. Sometimes, on smaller issues, it's even possible to let things go and ignore false dealing. But if others see we are unwilling to hold people to their agreements on even issues of our security(usually by soft power but if necessary by brute force, which enhances the soft power) they will think they no longer have to (nor, in some cases, will they even feel obliged to communicate). They'll treat their agreements with you like they are meaningless, like UN resolutions: big words, no action (who knows, the UN may even condemn this war; fortunate for us, the UN is just as willing to abide our intransigence as it was Saddam's).

This game theory/repeat player phenomenon extends to countries and individuals. We had terrorism problems under Carter, and Reagan sent word (backed by force) that it wouldn't be tolerated. We stopped doing that and terrorists have proliferated. Perhaps that's in part because some of our policies that have injured the pride of those in the Middle East (and I concede some may have been unfair), but it has more to do with their own government's failed policies and our perceived weekness (while some say it was the Gulf War that created "bin Laden," I say the perception that we were afraid to go to Baghdad and actually make Saddam pay a price for his aggression was at least half of the cause).

Countries make chemical weapons despite years of sanctions and negotiation because they "know" we won't do anything. Countries make nuclear weapons that can reach LA while smiling for diplomatic photos and engaging in fanciful reunification talks. Countries sponsor a group that kills thousands of people on our soil because they "know" the worst that will happen is we'll fire a few missiles, perhaps killing someone that was partly responsible but not taking out the government that gave it shelter and money. Negotiations resulted in agreements that resulted in Peace Prizes but didn't help the cause of peace.

Well that's over. We'll still communicate and make agreements, but we'll hold people to them. With Afghanistan, we didn't negotiate a direct agreement, but it was there tacitly: hit us, we'll just bark a lot (trust me, if bin Laden and Ommar had known what our response was going to be, they'd have stuck to foreign embassies). With Hussein, it was overt: get rid of the weapons and we'll let you keep oppressing your country and allow everyone to call us hypocrites. He lied and lied, we finally enforced.

A new repeat-player pattern is forming. We have agreements with other countries; here's betting communication will become increasingly effective.

Interesting:
Oh, I don't think we're trying to justify troops firing oncivilians at all. That was another user that posted that, not me.

I just like trying to figure out what's really happening. I think we *will* see a popular uprising in that town, because I think we've imported some fighters to whom they are sympathetic. It may take time, but I think it will happen.

Of course, some plans are too clever by half...so we'll see.

We'll still communicate and make agreements, but we'll hold people to them.

You have no enforcement option with North Korea. Live with it.

Foo, presumably three reasons:
1) to take control of the city with lower losses of US soldiers
2) to get a PR victory which would encourage rebellions in other Iraqi cities
3) to get a PR victory for the Bush administration which has been telling us for months how much the Iraqis are just dying for us to come in and help them out

Folks, especially Foo,

one might think that by now, given the embarassing reversals of "breaking news" regarding the day one "securing" of Umm Qasr and Al Faw, the "control" over basra, the "discovery" of chemical weapons sites, the "firing of SCUDS", the denial of downed Helicopters, the denial of captured US soldiers....

That you all might learn to doubt, just a wee bit, the "news" being reported.

It is fine to report the link, and fine to speculate about the content, but it is not fine to accept the information at face value, shout "I told you so", and thump your chest at how right you were.

So far, the only folks who have the right to shout "I told you so" are those who predicted (unlike Perle, Wolfowitz, Rummy, and Cheney) that this would be really ugly, really dicey, and that the "Shock and Awe" and the "Rapid Full Spectrum Dominance" campaigns were militarily and strategically bad, unfounded, and risky.

I for one was convinced by the media and the government that this would be quick, loud, bright, and over in a couple of weeks at the outside.

All indications are that it will not be.

I opposed the war then, and I oppose the war now, and for the same reasons.

But I never in a thousand years thought that the mighty US military machine, with its bushels of super-bombs, GPS, super intel, super radar, and massive armor would be getting fought to a standstill in every area it chooses to fight the enemy.

I never thought that the US would now be claiming victory because they can drive 350 km in 6 days -- please note that this push forward is not really much of a feat, considering that they basically avoided the armed and armored defensive emplacements along the way, and are now having to fight rearguard actions to defend their supply lines.

Stop hyperventilating -- your track record on reporting real facts is very poor. Why not wait for more independent confirmation before relying on Drudge, Debka (Aziz defected, Ramadan dead, Hussein dead, Iraq in chaos, yeah sure), and the Telegraph or the Sun....for god's sakes, the TELEGRAPH???

Please.

Cheez:

I respect your views, and sorry for getting you confused with another post. I do also agree that you do have to do your homework in this country, and can't just belive everything you hear. Maybe I am just so excited to see signs that this could be over sooner, that I just get carried away. Thanks again for all the info, cheese.

Foo:

We've dropped lots of little wind-up radios all over Basra. All over Iraq.
You crank the winder, and can listen to American programming for a couple of hours. Complete with some news of what's going on all over Iraq. Also, some Iraqis in Basra have TVs. Some may see Al Jazeera. Many will have radios. Word of an uprising, even if its orchestrated, even if its only Al Jazeera denying an uprising has occurred, will get around. This is not a stone age culture. It may then embolden other shiah muslims to "join" this rebellion.

And I'm out, folks. Mars needs women, and I need sleep.

Welcome to Vietnam! Oh great.
1) More troops.
2) Political agenda needs satisfaction.
3) Bomb, burn, and plunder.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/news/news002/news078.htm

According to [Russian military] intelligence Pentagon made a decision
to significantly reinforce the coalition. During the next two weeks
up to 50,000 troops and no less than 500 tanks will arrive to the
combat area from the US military bases in Germany and Albania. By the
end of April 120,000 more troops and up to 1,200 additional tanks
will be sent to support the war against Iraq.

George Bush demanded that the military breaks the standstill
in Iraq and within a week achieves significant military progress.

This means that
Washington is resorting to the "scorched earth" tactics and
carpet-bombing campaign.

peter:

does that weather report mean that saddam has finally finished his secret weather control device?

i'm sure he's in his secret underground bunker stroking a cat as we speak...

sorry... couldn't resist :)

But I never in a thousand years thought that the mighty US military machine, with its bushels of super-bombs, GPS, super intel, super radar, and massive armor would be getting fought to a standstill in every area it chooses to fight the enemy.

Dan, why do you think this is happening?

I just saw Michael Moore on CNN --- What a flaming hard on. I used to like a little of what he stood for, but now he is just a bold faced lier with too much pride to admit he was out of line.

I'll echo -was the info re: the cia ever posted? I haven't seen it...

Great site here. Must confess to being a newbe but must make a couple of observations.
1. If Iraqi TV were hit with e-bomb why are cameras on the roof broadcasting?

2. Some people are too hung up on the differences between Moslem and non-Moslem people and realizing that all people are basically the same. We all bleed, grieve, get hungry, thirsty and love our children. Yes, we do it in different ways - but we all want the same things.

I may have been the one to raise the issue of uprising-as-ruse to allow shelling urban mortar positions.

We don't know much, despite the loud media echo. All I've seen goes back to one general who ordered the shelling. Like Cheez says, we'll see what happened soon enough.

But remember, this is war. If we are getting shot at, we'll make stuff up to be able to fire back. I had friends who were helicopter door gunners who claimed to have regularly returned fire in protected areas on Vietnam.

interesting: media bias

Is Al-jazeera [or CNN, Fox, MSNBC...] biased?

Yes. Journalism is not an exact science. And although, good journalists try very hard to report in a fair and open, you should also know a few things.

First: Journalism is about choices: what is news, is it significant, how do you put it in the grand scheme of things? What do you write, what do you drop in a 40 second radio voicer, a 500-word wire story?

Then, there are four important things to know about media:

The media construct reality (they are not the reality)
Audience negociate meaning (according to their background)
Media contains ideological and value messages (role of women, acceptance of authority, patriotism)
Media have commercial implications ($$$)

Knowing that, one should construct his/her own understanding of reality with an open mind, while trying to deconstruct the messages of various media sources.

Hope it helps.

On the "execution" of American POWs:

people returning fire while they are under cover often get shot in the head rather than the torso. Insufficient proof here. What other evidence is there, if any?

In the same article cited above (by whom I can't recall), the NY Times wrote:

"It's a good plan, and it is a plan that in four and a half or five days has moved ground forces to within a short distance of Baghdad," said Mr. Rumsfeld....

Adolf also had a good plan; it was called Operation Barbarossa. I tend to think Adolf was a better military strategist than Rumsfeld, but Rumsfeld might have an edge here, if he gets his jaw out of the way and lets the generals get on with it, flawed plan or otherwise.

Yeah, Osama is definitely hung up on that one.

Soooo...
Breaking news should not be reported here?

This Basra uprising thing moved the markets (oil, stock, gold) and continues to do so around the world as we speak.

You saw it here first...it was fascinating to watch it move through all the news channels.

But we shouldn't report it?

Raven -- yes people do get shot in the head in war, but not 5 in one spot that have no gun shot wounds anywhere else, and that specialists are saying were in a kneeling position. I am not saying they should lay down and just let us run through (although that would be nice) -- I am saying that it is simply INHUMANE to shoot soldiers in the MIDDLE of the forehead while possibly being on their knees.

Re: Patriots, the reason I asked was this article (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/nightline/World/iraq_gosknotebook030323.html)
seems to portray the Patriot batteries as having difficulty moving and operating in the desert environment. I was just seeking some confirmation that apparently their initial difficulty in moving in the terrain had passed.

does anyone feel that the world is a safer place..or going to be a safer place because of the actions taken by this administation?
...great site..i'm addicted.....thanks....
papatom

Just reported on CNN that reports will be released tomorrow from NY Times that will OUTRAGE America in regards to the captured and executed troops.

fred200, davidbyron, i don't even bother reading your posts anymore. I mean, if you have new information then post it, but spare us the ranting. it's tiring and predictable and a waste of server space.
thanks

Saying it was a PUBLIC EXECUTION!!!!!

Mad Dog said: If I am not mistaken, there is no air support in this sandstorm.

Sort of. My understanding is that the choppers are out of commission, which of course is a huge loss in this type of action, but that many of our planes can still go. Can't use laser guided, but can use dumb bombs to hit locations where radar has picked up nonfriendly fire and some smart bombs guided to points estimated by GPS on the ground.

Even still, while I agree this is the "best" time for Iraq to attack their third, I think that mostly just shows that even in the best of times large-scale attack is simply not a good option for the Iraqis. Each troop is still worth more now in defensive formation and later in the city camped in an apartment complex than lost in an attack and unavailable later. That is, of course, assuming the Iraqis don't factor civillian casualties, which I'm guessing they don't.

CNN says Pentagon says 43 dead total. 23 Americans 20 Brits.

Does anyone believe this?

I haven't heard about this yet, maybe I missed it, but in regards to this whole POW/G.C. hullabaloo

Has anyone heard about how we are going to treat any "irregulars" or these militias? The US's big point about the Taliban was that they weren't part of a regular army, that they had no uniforms. Are they going to Xray as enemy combatants?

More on 2-M1A1 destruction:
http://mansfieldnewsjournal.gannettonline.com/gns/iraq/20030325-19069.shtml

I haven't heard this here before.

CSPAN seems to be playing large blocks of Iraqi TV, translated into English.

Wacky stuff.

Foo, report it all..

by now, people should have at least half a clue what sources they do and do not trust.

Besides, I found great amusement(*) in seeing Umm Qatr captured over and over again :)

(*) Disclaimer: the casualties are never amusing; let's be very clear on that.

They did note that any Iraqi soldiers caught in civilian attire (in direct violation to the Geneva Convention), will be treated as 'War Criminals'. Haven't seen or heard anything regarding what has happened to those troops thus far, but I, personally, think they should be treated as viciously as they acted.

crayz: I have thought those numbers highly suspect for a few days. It may just caution against overly optimistic reports, and if those #'s are true, the Iraqis are more ineffectual than the reports would have believe. I doubt it though at least until Franks states those numbers in a press conference like he did a few days ago.

Why would an Iraqi hospital have chemical suits and antidotes for nerve gas?
Like our kid used to say...'I don't know'.

crayz:

There have been a lot of uncompiled reports about emdebs reporting destroyed APCs, by frienndly fire, or otherwise. Of course there is no way we took the bulk of our casualties a couple of days ago, but only stubbed toes since. That's a hell of a long supply line, etc.

Ted Koppel (Nightline (ABC (TV (USA))) just reported that the 2 M1A1's that were "disabled" were attacked from the rear. The blowout panels absorbed damage, and the soldiers inside escaped. He said the Iraqis had "new weapons", as opposed to .50 caliber machine guns, but did not elaborate. T-72 tanks took part in the assault. Fedayeen and only some ROGs (Republican Guard units) charged Americans in packs of 100 at a time, like in the Korean War. The idea they apparently had was to overwhelm the superior firepower of the American soldiers. Aside from "disabling" 2 tanks, they didn't accomplish much. Koppel didn't mention any American casualties. Furthermore, theoretically, can't we eventually bring up a repair crew and fix the tanks? I suppose it depends on how bad they were damaged.

In short, the performance of our troops is outstanding.

Why isn't anyone-- of either those supporting or second-guessing our strategy-- mentioning that even if we totally eradicate all four devisionds of Republican Guard outside Baghdad, there's still the even more dangerous Special Republican Guard that's just plain not leaving the city? It seems to me that there's no questions about it, we're fighting in the city. The only reason this wasn't considered necessary a week ago is because we expected Iraq to capitulate immediately. This is a more fundamental question, I know, but: since Iraq didn't fold, aren't all these various actions in some way a total failure of our war plan? What I mean is-- are they accomplishing any goals we would have thought positive before the war started? Have we already failed the political task because of one hopelessly fruity strategy?

crayz: Not a chance, unless the Iraqis were firing rubber bullets.

Crayz -- just a thought -- My gut says that we have lost more lives than thatl, but I'm not quite sure as they have an obligation to the soldiers families. (albeit they could disregard that obligation) -- not quite sure what to make of it.

Is a Militia necessarily something in violation of the G.C.?

I bet M-1's were dstroyed in place by US forces because they were disabled in a place not conducive to recovery, aka under heavy enemy fire, all 8 crewmembers are alive.

Hey, I beat CNN with the POW public execution story in NY times with a link awhile back, but based on the link, I'm not sure NYTimes is doing anything other than quoting a US Official who said it 'may' have happened.

Is it appropriate to describe the Fedayeen Saddam as a "militia" as the NYT seems to be doing?

Andrew Hagen: I think they were more than just disabled. From the story I mentioned above:
"EAST BANK OF THE EUPHRATES RIVER, Iraq - Two American M1A1 Abrams tanks were destroyed Tuesday by fire from what officers believe was an Iraqi truck-mounted anti-tank gun. It was the first time an Abrams has been destroyed by enemy fire in its 20-year history.

But the Abrams preserved one important record: All eight crewmen survived without serious injury. No crew member has ever died in an Abrams because of enemy action.

The two tanks were lost as the 3rd Infantry Division's 3rd Squadron, 7th Cavalry Regiment pushed to within 80 miles of Baghdad Tuesday night. The squadron had been in a running, 24-hour battle, crashing through repeated ambushes as it raced north. Along the way, another Abrams rolled into a ditch and was lost.

The two tanks saw tracers from behind them and were maneuvering to return fire when, within seconds of one another, each took hits from their rear and burst into flames. As ammunition exploded, the crewmen of Troop B scrambled to safety.

Officers at the scene described the tanks as ``catastrophic losses.''

and don't forget the super-special Republican Guard.. i think those are the guys in the purple uniforms prancing like on that Monty Python sketch..

interesting:

If they were executed, then by all means find the bastards responsible and take care of them; I'll volunteer for the torture chamber (oops, we don't do that anymore, do we?).. ok, firing squad.

But everyone, ask yourself if you would convict a defendant of murder in criminal court on the basis of nothing more than some analysis, by any expert you want to name, of nothing more than a photograph.

I've been here since last Wednesday; sporadically at first, steadily since Friday night. I am impressed how our host has scrambled to solution problems and kept his cool under pressure. I also appreciate the general neutrality (not to mention the acumen) of the comments. Even as the ratio of moderate voices has somewhat diminished over the days, they are still substantially less myopic than most other sites. There seems to be a very good group over here.
So kudos to Sean, but also to all of you making rational sense.

And to echo off an earlier thread, I'm also increasingly impressed by Wesley Clark. He just keeps getting better, I think. The US has a good one there. Hope you can appreciate him.

I was struck by many lines in the superb Robert Fisk article(http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/032503_perfect_storm_2.html ) that I was linked to from here , but this one stuck with me:

. . .active resistance is a principle element of Iraq’s military defense. It’s in the act of resistance, not whether you can stop this tank or that tank.

By which I take it to mean, they'll be facing off whatever weaponery the coalition lynch mob has with slingshots and camel dung if that's all that they're left with.

Just reported on CNN that reports will be released tomorrow from NY Times that will OUTRAGE America in regards to the captured and executed troops.

Without independently verifiable proof, I would be very wary of this story as pure propaganda, meant to re-inflame passions when Coalition war plans are bogging down.

Don't be distracted by highly emotional issues that easily seize the public mind.

This could rank right up there with the disproved story of Iraqis dumping Kuwaiti babies out of their incubators.

NYTimes OpEd

POW Tape will backfire on butcher

Correction: NYPost

Vicki --- Great post about the hospital. Danny -- yes a malitia would be in violation if it received funding from the govt. (which I'm sure they do).

Walter Rodgers of CNN just added to the Koppel report. He said that the soliers in the disabled tanks were not injured. He further says that the Iraqis are now using TOW missiles mounted on the beds of pickup trucks. That must be the new weapon that Koppel was talking about.

Foo, what is the point of posting editorials from the NY Post?

GREAT POST FOO!!! Where do you find this stuff? (retorical)